6/23/08

The doctrine of election: an honest and personal discussion

In following with Bill's anthropology post I've arrived once again to my disparagement with some Calvinistic doctrines. It is also possible that this is what Bill is leading up to. The following is not intended to put anyone down or propose an argument. I especially direct the previous sentence towards Berny whom all of you know him to be the most outspoken Calvinist on this blog. This is not directed towards him though he may reply if he wants to, or not. But I would like to hear what you guys have to say on the weaknesses and/or strength of my arguments which focus on the doctrine of election and irresistible grace. The post is long so if you don't have the time, then feel free to skip it or read it later.

My issues with the doctrine of election:

By definition justice demands proper retribution to the one who does wrong for the wrong committed[1]. According to the book of Romans “…all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.”[2] This is said in the context of not keeping the Law of Moses. Even before the Law was given sin reigned in the world because of Adam’s transgression.[3] Hence, we all deserve the appropriate retribution for sin, which is death.[4] The second half of this story has been revealed through Christ whose righteousness He offers to all men in the free gift of justification onto life.[5] It is God’s Grace that now reigns,[6] and by definition cannot be earned. No man can stake a claim on grace; it is offered, not bought or earned.[7]

According to John G. Reisigner the doctrine of election is “the truth that God sovereignly chooses, or elects, certain individuals to be saved.”[8] Some argue that the doctrine of election is unjust because it grants grace to some and not others. Regarding this point R.C. Sproul makes mention of an interesting Bible passage in his book, “The Holiness of God.” He brings up the parable of the vineyard workers.[9] In this parable Jesus brings attention to the reaction of the workers that were hired earliest. They thought it was unfair that some have only worked one hour and yet are receiving the same pay that they are. The landowner in the parable reminds them that He is being fair in giving them what he promised, only he chose those whom he hired later to be paid more for their labor and in that he was showing kindness[10]. R.C. Sproul’s passage goes on to remind us that it is fair that all are condemned. That is the deserved justice of all men. It is God’s grace to elect those whom He chooses unto justification. Where some are elected it is God’s grace; where some are not elected it is God’s justice.

The following arguments grant that it is not unjust when men are condemned to die according to their sins, but they do present that taken from a biblical perspective of men over the course of scriptural history the doctrine of election is not supported.

  1. The hope for salvation was given to all men in Adam.[11] This hope was for his and future generations of men. As sin reigns in all men because of Adam[12], meaning because we are of Adam’s seed, hope similarly applies to all men because we are of Adam’s seed and counted Abraham’s seed to whom the promise of the sacrificial lamb was given of whom Isaac is a figure.[13] If all men hope for salvation then all men who cry out to God for mercy God will grant it to them.[14] To argue that some men (the non-elect) don’t hope for salvation is to argue that some men are not descendant of Adam. To argue that some men (the elect) hope for salvation in Christ and some hope (the non-elect) for salvation in other things is to argue that men (the elect) know of Christ and His work from birth; all hope for salvation in something and when it is presented to them in the form of Christ (the only true form of salvation) they are granted the choice to believe and have within their lifetime to make that choice.
  2. Man is created in the image of God. This levels all men. Incorrectly saying that God grants the opportunity for some and not all to be redeemed belittles this great honor of being made in the image of God. It is because we were made in His image that Christ came[15] to men. No other creature is given this honor and to no other creature does Christ come to in the manner that He does for mankind. It is because He loved us that He made us in His image and vice versa, and therefore expresses His love on the cross and grants adoption.[16] All are made in His image. All can be redeemed by the work of Christ. (I would tend to agree more with the doctrine of election if it was to argue that the non-elect is not made in the image of God, but from my understanding this pursuit will find no fruition.) There is no difference between men (elect or non-elect) and all men can have the righteousness of God.[17]
  3. Covenants in the OT, though mediated by individuals, applied to communities of people and in some cases all creatures as in the case of Noah and the flood.[18] God makes covenants with groups of people through individuals. The doctrine of election implies that God makes covenants with individuals. On the other hand, God defines in scripture that the covenant He makes is with a group of people: those that believe.[19]
  4. There are too many verses stating that anyone who believes may be saved. These verses also imply that all can believe.[20]
  5. It does not reasonably lead from Scripture that God is more glorified when He alone makes decisions. Some of God’s first words to man grant him the choice between life and death[21], and some of the last words in Scripture encourages man to make the same decision.[22] God is glorified in giving men the opportunity to interact with Him and make the proper decision.
  6. Saying that God elects us individually and causes us to irresistibly turn to Him, and later tack a claim that we still mysteriously make a decision sounds very much like we don’t really have a say in the matter and the word “mysteriously” was added to cover up the fact that it is a self-contradicting statement. I believe this “mysterious” assertion was made in light of the irrepressible evidence from scripture that man does have a say in the matter. John MacArthur makes a similar statement but uses the word “faith” instead of mystery (see Footnote).[23] I’ll present a tongue-in-cheek example: If Obi-Wan Kenobi uses the Jedi mind trick to convince a group of stormtroopers to let him past a checkpoint one cannot say that the storm troopers had a choice in the matter. On the other hand, if I tell my son to clean up his room he has a choice and he can exercise it several ways.
  7. The doctrine of election undermines the mystery of the Gentiles that Paul speaks of.[24] The Jews spent thousands of years wrongly believing that they alone were elect only to surprisingly find out that not only did they have the hope of salvation, but the rest of the world did as well.[25]



[1] "justice." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 23 Jun. 2008. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/justice>.

[2] Romans 3:23

[3] Romans 5:12-21

[4] Romans 6:23

[5] Romans 5:18

[6] Romans 5:21

[7] "grace." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 23 Jun. 2008. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grace>.

[8] http://www.soundofgrace.com/sep97/elect1.htm

[9] Matthew 20:1-16

[10] Matthew 20:15

[11] Genesis 3:15

[12] Romans 5:14

[13] Romans 4:16

[14] Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13

[15] Hebrews 2:16

[16] Romans 8:15

[17] Romans 3:22

[18] Genesis 2:17, Romans 5:12-14, Genesis 9:1-17, Genesis 17:1-21, Deuteronomy 29:1, Psalm 89, etc.

[19] Romans 9:33

[20] II Peter 3:9, John 3:15 & 16, Romans 10:9, John 11:26, John 12:46, Acts 10:43, Romans 9:33, I John 5:1

[21] Genesis 2:16-17

[22] Revelation 22:17

[23] Those statements defining God’s sovereign choice of believers are not in the Bible to cause controversy, as if God’s election means sinners don’t make decisions. Election does not exclude human responsibility or the necessity of each person to respond to the gospel by faith. Jesus said, “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out” (John 6:37).

Admittedly the two concepts don’t seem to go together. However, both are true separately, and we must accept them both by faith. You may not understand it, but rest assured—it’s fully reconciled in the mind of God. {Emphasis added}

[24] Romans 11:25

[25] Romans 11


"Lord, may this post not cause any division or dissension within the body of your bride however small a part of it we represent. May it bring edification through interpersonal relationships and discussion, and may these things bring us closer to You. May no one find offense in it. I love you Lord and I know that many of those that read this blog do to. Blessed be You Name forever, for You know all things. Teach me what You want me to know and let me be content with what You don't want me to know."

Seeking to walk in Christ's love by the power of the Holy Spirit,
Remy.

8 comments:

dogfreid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bill Harvelle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dogfreid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dogfreid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Remy said...

Berny! Hey man! What a coincidence :-) The same night that I decide to respond to Bill's post I see that you responded to mine, and I am glad. I have been looking forward to it very much, and it thrilled me that you began with the subject of "philosophical commitments" and "guiding presuppositions." To answer your question in short, Could anything really convince you that Calvinism is true? Or have you predetermined (pun) ahead of time that it cannot be? Could the Bible convince you? I desperately want to be convinced that Calvinism is true! and/or Arminianism! If I was fully convinced about either one I don't think that I would read every word that you write on the subject with such gravity. If I thought Scripture was perfectly clear on either of these two sides I would have no trouble acquiescing. I think I could say the same about the thousands of brothers in Christ that have debated this topic over the centuries. Yes, I obviously lean towards Arminianism, but I surrender to the Word of God first and foremost. I wish I could always read what you say without bias. I am not perfect Berny, nor free from presuppositions and extraneous philosophies that are unbiblical, but I am trying to exercise my will to surrender to God whether I like it or not. I am often unsuccessful, but I am trying and He is changing me, and promised me that He will complete what He started.

There have been several specific moments in my past when I was willing to change something that I knew God desired for me to change however much it hurt me (mostly because it severed relationships, and long held beliefs and customs). I know that we who are of the family of God are familiar with this. To be honest with you, when I presented these 7 points on the doctrine of election and irresistible grace I was presenting all of me. In part I was saying, "this is what I understand from Scripture. If anyone can show me that I am mistaken on most or all of my points, I will begin to renounce my perspective." But understand that my points were not based on philosophical commitments. I hope that I built my arguments effectively and with the proper sources supporting them, particularly Scripture.

Also Berny, I just want you to know, that your compliments mean a great deal to me, not simply because you're flattering me, but because I hold anything that you have to say with a lot of respect and weight. And not just because you're a brother in Christ. That alone should do, but because I see that God has given you a wonderful mind, intellect, and power of communication.

I would love to look at the sources you mentioned. I have been thinking about going ahead and reading up on Calvinism from a supporter's point of view.

As for your question 'why does one choose God and another doesn't?' You've asked me this before. And though you gave a beautiful treatise on the importance of understanding this from the perspective of the presence or absence of a cause for each of our choices, I must answer as simply as I answered you the first time: I know that when I turn the key in my car ignition that the car turns on, but I don’t know the technical aspects of why it turns on. Similarly, I don’t need to understand why each person makes his or her choice. I just know that each person can make his or her choice.
I'll give you another example, I know that God incarnate was born of the virgin Mary. I don't know the genetic details of how this occurred. Is Jesus genetically identical to Mary asides from one of his sex chromosomes? Did God infuse Himself into Mary's ovum, or did he plant Himself as a fertilized egg? I won't continue my line of questioning because I don't want to ridicule God, but I hope you understand the implications. Just because I don't know how it happens, doesn't mean that it didn't happen. All I know is that Scripture says that this is what happened, how it happened could be the subject of conversation on another day, but it will never change that it happened. You know where I'm going with this. I am (so far) convinced from my understanding of Scripture that it is by our choice to believe that God imputes us with righteousness and it is apart from works. We can discuss how this choice actually happens as long as you wish, but it will not change my mind that the choice occurs. If you want to convince me that the choice doesn't really occur then use Scripture to correct my presumption (which of course is what all of our debates have been about).
Plus, if it is so important to understand why a person chooses one thing over another, then why is it also not important to know why God chooses one person over another? Why must this remain a mystery? Saying that it is "love" is saying that He does not "love" everyone or cannot exercise his "love" towards everyone. Both of which I believe are contrary to Scripture.
On top of that, I'm not sure that I'm willing to move into the realm of 'the philosophy of choice' and accept any one of your propositions because they seem to be grounded on modern philosophical reasoning rather than the reality of Scripture (both of which sometimes oppose each other), or even Semitic thought. I think this reasoning might be entertaining and perhaps enlightening, but it needs to be grounded in Scripture before I use it to support or detract from what is grounded in Scripture regarding Calvinism or Arminianism.

What I said about God making us in his image because He loves us, I meant. God bestowed Himself in us. I believe that is an act of love, and if not love, then grace, which stems from love. God loves mankind in Adam and Eve. God does in a sense love the whole world (John 3:16), not just Israel.

Finally, you said, "Except Calvinism doesn't teach that God "grants the opportunity for some and not all." Rather it teaches that God grants the opportunity to all, yet only the elect seize it. This is the difference between the general and effectual call." --If this is what Calvinism teaches then count me a convert on this point. But it seems that you forgot to add one word that to me represents this Calvinistic argument: "Only the elect CAN seize it." That is where I disagree. I believe anyone CAN effectively seize it. Saying that all are equal and have the same opportunity, but not all can seize it, is logically implying that the first proposition is false, or under girded by unknown or unmentioned parameters.

Anyways, it is getting super late. I've been very entertained, edified, and blessed. I don't take anything that you said offensively. I hope you don't take anything that I say offensively either. It is late and my thoughts are beginning to slur. :-) ...Please prove me wrong. I'm listening. And yes, I will try to get to those sources. I think that will be best. That way I can really delve into the specifics and details.

God bless you and yours Berny.
I love you in Christ.

Remy.

Bill Harvelle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dogfreid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dogfreid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.